In this episode of Sacred Tension, author and journalist Jonathan Rauch takes the helm to interview me about my political transformation from progressive leftist to liberal centrist. We talk about cancel culture as a form of thought control, why I have turned against identitarianism, how the left’s response to the Hamas invasion of Israel galvanized me, and much more.
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Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow in the Governance Studies program and the author of eight books and many articles on public policy, culture, and government. He is a contributing writer of The Atlantic and recipient of the 2005 National Magazine Award, the magazine industry’s equivalent of the Pulitzer Prize. His many Brookings publications include the 2021 book The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth, as well as the 2015 ebook Political Realism: How Hacks, Machines, Big Money, and Back-Room Deals Can Strengthen American Democracy. Other books include The Happiness Curve: Why Life Gets Better after 50 (2018) and Gay Marriage: Why It Is Good for Gays, Good for Straights, and Good for America (2004). He has also authored research on political parties, marijuana legalization, LGBT rights and religious liberty, and more.
I love hearing back from my audience. Did you agree with us in this conversation? Disagree? Let us know in the comments below. If your comment is excellent, I might feature it in an upcoming post.
Stephen Bradford Long 
A few things really struck me about this interview.
How do you condemn Hamas, but not Israel? Surely, if Hamas slaughtering people on Oct. 7 is wrong, Israel slaughtering many, many more in the days after is also wrong?
The mainstream leftist opinion I’ve heard is not “Hamas are freedom fighters”. It’s “Hamas are terrorists, and Israel is using a Hamas attack to commit genocide.”
I consider myself a leftist, and I don’t think Hamas are freedom fighters. The choice is not between siding with Hamas and siding with Netanyahu!
I want to challenge this idea that “Hamas are freedom fighters” is some kind of mainstream leftist opinion. This is not the opinion I have heard from other leftists, including John Oliver and Vaush. Being pro-Hamas doesn’t sound mainstream at all. It sound pretty damn fringe to me.
Of course, I can’t pretend to know what conversations you’ve had with “leftists”, but just because you’ve talked with people who defend Hamas, that does not make it a mainstream view. I would like to know which mainstream voices are defending Hamas? Amy Goodman? Noam Chomsky? Bueller?!?
If you feel the need to condemn Hamas, but not Israel, I challenge you to ask yourself why. Your choices are not between supporting Hamas and supporting the IDF.
Also, yes, of course Israel should exist, and I support a two-state solution. This is a mainstream, leftist viewpoint, by mainstream leftists who do not support terrorists!
Another thing is the “ha-ha only serious” way that Rauch reminds you that “There’s no turning back now that you’ve burned your leftist card. You’re one of us now!” I think he says it at least a half dozen times. It seems rather creepy and culty. Of course, you’re an adult, and you can change your mind whenever you feel like it. Or should we presume that the left hates you too much now, and once an outsider, you will always be an outsider? None shall let you return, now that you have betrayed us, Stephen!
Another is the sentiment that this is a long time coming. I’ve had reservations about your work ever since the Katie Herzog interview. In that episode, she appears like an honest journalist who has been unjustly attacked by the left and accused of being a TERF. And yet when I went to her Twitter account years later…a lot of her followers are TERFs, and she says a lot of TERFy things. Was I misled? Were you?
Your portrayal of “cancel culture” also carries water for the right wing. Being “canceled” is an interesting social phenomenon, and it should be discussed, but portraying it as a unique facet of the left is wrong and helps to push a right-wing narrative. The right cancels people all the time when they don’t conform to their social expectations. We can also talk about how standards of cancelation are different for different communities. Again, what is harmful is the narrative that only the left cancels people.
The main thing I want you think about, though, is why you do not condemn Netanyahu and the IDF. This is not about you joining a synagogue or the left being antisemitic. As Bernie Sanders once said, “It is not antisemitic to be critical of a right-wing government in Israel.” That’s like saying that hating Trump is the same thing as hating the US people. The state of Israel is not the Jewish people and Netanyahu doesn’t speak for every Israeli or Jewish person.
Leftists are not opposed to Israel because they love Hamas. It is because we are appalled at the actions Israel has taken in the wake of the Oct. 7 attack.
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Hi there! Thanks so much for your sharing your thoughts. I deeply appreciate it.
For further clarity on my political position, I’d like to direct you to this post: https://sacredtension.substack.com/p/have-i-been-radicalized-to-the-right
As you say in your comment, your main concern is why I don’t condemn Israel. I am happy to unpack this.
I do not condemn Israel as a nation, because it is a country of 9.3 million complex individuals. I do, however, condemn without reservation the terrifying far right government, Netanyahu, the settlements, and more. I am also aghast at the absolutely hideous bombings in Gaza, and I am horrified at the toll of human suffering.
While I voice these sentiments in my day-to-day life, I have neglected to do so in my content, for two reasons:
1. I don’t feel like I need to, because no one in my circle is defending Netanyahu, the Israeli government, the settlements, or the bombings. Everyone around me seems to be as aghast as I am. I’m open to the possibility that this is *not* a good reason not voice my opposition, but it’s been my reasoning so far.
2. After commenting on my initial dismay at the situation, I realized that it is best I not comment on geopolitics as a content creator, and I have retreated from the subject publicly. After doing two shows and two articles on the subject, I realized that I was wandering out of my wheelhouse and that I should leave the war commentary to the experts. I’m good at many things, but Middle Eastern geopolitics is not one of them.
I’m happy to pursue the other subjects you mentioned, but the above seemed the most salient. Please feel free to email me via the contact page on this site if you would like to discuss further.
Thanks again for your comment.
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