In this episode of Sacred Tension, Lucien Greaves returns to discuss every allegation of fascism and antisemitism against him and The Satanic Temple.
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Stephen Bradford Long 
That you’re still a shill for these losers this late in the game would be hilarious if it weren’t so sad. Please stop platforming white supremacist apologism.
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A couple of thoughts ( but you might already know what I’m about to say ) 1. To say that you know what “Everyone outside of TST thinks…” must mean you’ve read their minds because how could you possibly know what “everyone outside of TST thinks…” otherwise? I don’t believe you’re a mindreader but I’m willing to be proven wrong. What’s the name of my cat? 2. I listened to the entire podcast. I heard no “white supremacist apologism” Can you quote what you heard from the podcast that is “white supremacist apologism” ? Thanks in advance.
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You’re right, “white supremacist denialism” would be far more accurate. For example, Doug and Stephen pretending to have no idea about a well known photo of Greg Stevens playing mini-golf with Milo Yiannapolous. Straight up claims it doesn’t exist, and then goes on to call Greg, his own Director of Ministry, “a confused gay guy” who “wrote for Breitbart”.
Assuming you listened to the entire podcast and walked away thinking these were good people who deserve your support, yikes. That isn’t the only lie, but it’s one that’s really, really easily disproven.
I’m sure you’ll adjust your position in light of this new information. Thanks in advance.
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NOT MINIGOLF??!! GASP!! THEY MUST BE IN CAHOOTS!! 🤣🤣
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Also, that was years ago. Greg has made his position on Milo clear since then.
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Leah, Aria, Dave–it’s time for a hobby.
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“Everyone” = “Me and three other bitter people I’m online friends with”
🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Hey as someone Doug “Lucien Greaves” Mesner harassed personally using his sock account where he poses as a Japanese woman (Mikoto Niikura, I can provide screenshots. The author of the Newsweek article also has screenshots. Newsweek generally doesn’t post screenshots, you shitheads) I honestly loved this episode.
That either of you think this paints you in a good light is spectacular. I particularly loved the part where Doug claims that TST cannot be a Pyramid Scheme because nobody pays dues and anyone trying to make money off being in TST is insincere, but then mentions that Ministers, who have to pay to apply and then pay dues, are able to make money off that investment.
I work with clowns. You work with buffoons.
Brava.
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Hi “Everyone” means everyone, Thanks for the reply. You still seem to be engaging in faux mindreading by implying you know what “everyone” thinks. I don’t believe you do. Again, I heard no “white supremacist apologism” or denials in the podcast. What exactly is my position that you speak of ?
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Your position is that “there’s no white supremacy apologism or denials in the podcast.
Doug denies the existence of a very real, widely circulated photograph of Director of MInistry Greg Stevens playing mini-golf with well known alt-right figure Milo Yiannaolous. I also mentioned Doug’s extremely unflattering and weirdly homophobic dismissal of Greg as a “confused gay guy”.
Given that these things happened and exist, I assumed you would change your position, maybe even acknowledge that that came across as homophobic and weird.
MAYBE even decide that these guys could *possibly* be trash.
Instead, you’re deflecting by fixating on a non-point, and ignoring anything inconvenient. I told you exactly what I heard in the same podcast you listened to, and why I thought it was dishonest and wormy. You aren’t engaging in good fatih, and no one thought you would be. Anyone reading this exchange, however, is going to see you gloss right over the facts to desperately deflect about a piece of obvious hyperbole that, in bad faith, you’re pretending is supposed to be literal.
As it happens, TST defense usually requires you to commit rhetorical atrocities, no one is especially surprised or interested.
I said “no one” to give you something to fixate on instead of confronting what’s in front of you. So what you’re doing yourself, now, is white supremacy denial. You aren’t the good guys.
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Ministers of all religions are paid for their services by the family they are serving. Catholic preists are given a check for every funeral they perform. It’s not a pyramid sceme. It’s called paying for services rendered.
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People don’t get harassed for no reason, so you were probably being a d*ck. It happens. Want any cheese with your whine?
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We are two people disagreeing about our own impressions of the podcast. As each individual out there can listen to it for themselves and come away with their own impressions. I don’t see you as a bad person just because we disagree. I disagree with my friends often. Thanks for engaging with me, I appreciate it!
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Oh, I think of white supremacy as being about race. And as I remember, the “confused gay guy” comment was about that Milo dude not the Greg guy…. Have a good night!
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Because I’m a fallible human being that makes mistakes, I listened to the podcast again in case I was wrong and needed to make amends. The quote “confused gay person” is in reference to Milo Yiannaolous, a gay man who spoke against LGBT issues and was fired by Breitbart for a pro-pedophilia stance. To me, to call this despicable piece of shit a “confused gay person” is not a homophobic statement. So it seems you got the wrong impression thinking that the comment was about someone else. It wasn’t. Making that mistake doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. Just, like me, a fallible one.
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Even if that’s the case, it’s still a weird, homophobic thing to point out, and your decision to willfully not interpret it as such doesn’t really matter.
This is also the same “despicable piece of shit” famously friends with the other “confused gay person”, which seems to be a detail you’d rather engage in faux righteous pedantry than address.
Again, no one expected you to do anything but find other things to nitpick so you didn’t have to address the only actually relevant content here.
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I have no idea what you’re talking about. All I did was to listen to the podcast again to see if I was wrong. I wasn’t. But you seem to be angry beyond anything I’ve said. It occurs to me that you might be one of the folks quoted in the Newsweek article. If so, then I understand where you’re coming from. My best to you and your own!
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Great discussion as always Stephen!
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Great episode as usual, and gave me a lot to mentally chew on. I definitely agree with what seems to be the overall, underlying core to these issues, which is that there’s a tendency on the Left right now to expect ideological and interpersonal purity. Difference of opinion is important, disagreement on best tactics is a good thing, and admitting mistakes is the only way to fix things and grow.
What is frustrating to me about a lot of this is the double standard. Greg can’t have ever associated with Milo (never mind that he doesn’t anymore) or Lucian can’t even be tangentially related to a whole clown car of people, but these critics can directly associate with right wing religious bigots and that’s fine. And I’m speaking as someone who was DIRECTLY attacked by Milo, not as someone approaching his ideas or whatever as theoretical, but as someone who had their cellphone bricked by a hate mob Milo sent after me. I don’t hold any ill-will towards Greg for having been friends with Milo at one point, and I’m frankly more irritated at those who would attack my community supposedly on my behalf like the fucking SWERFs do to me all the time. I actually agree, to some degree, with Lucian that the Left reacted to his trolling in a way that fueled him (he lost interest in me when I blocked him and his hundred thousand or so followers and did other shit with my time). Speaking of, Milo attacked me simply for associating with the wrong person on Twitter. I showed compassion to a doxxing victim who was being sent death threats, and Milo thought that was inappropriate because of who the person was. I’m not too happy with people on the Left doing the same fucking shit as the very people who do and have done me real life harm.
Anyway, all this is to say that I see a lot of abusive people who cloak their cruelty in self-righteousness and social justice language in order to avoid accountability and to soothe themselves about it, not just online but in my personal life as well. Lying about people to socially isolate them is abusive, harassing people with extreme accusations of wrongdoing for every small misstep with no path out of it is abusive, and it doesn’t matter if it’s a mob online or a boyfriend doing it, or how it’s dressed up.
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